Celebrated writer Shobhaa De is like a gust of wind. Refreshing and empowering. She speaks with remarkable clarity and honesty. There is a certain enigma about the septuagenarian, yet an everywoman quality that binds us in sisterhood. Her intelligent eyes sparkle and her childlike smile adds to her personality. Endearing and earnest with an abundant enthusiasm for new experiences, her spirit is that of an explorer and it has sustained her long and successful career. You could instantly warm up to her. Just like we did, on a weekend retreat at Taj Guras Kutir Resort & Spa in Sikkim. Excerpts from the candid conversation.
What is the secret of looking like Shobhaa De?
Do you really, desperately want to know? The secret is in my bag and it’s the absolute truth. Don’t be too shocked because that is the only secret. This is the secret! (Takes out a tiny jar of Pond’s cold cream!) My entire life, I have only used this, morning, noon, and night, before going to bed, as soon as I wake up. It works for me.
The secret is honestly feeling good about yourself, it is about owning your age, acceptance and being sensitive to people in your life and around you. It’s about love and love is the best cosmetic. And, essentially not abusing what is God-given. That’s what I tell all young people, who out of some sort of desperation are going in to fix this and that... ‘my nose is not perfect and my cheekbones aren’t where they should be’. It’s the era of Instagram acceptance and everyone wants to look perfect on Instagram. It’s not possible. No one is born perfect and no one should aspire to perfection. Accept yourself, the way you are, with all your flaws and lines and the body that is not Kylie Jenner’s!
You have always led life on your own terms. Does it take a lot of courage to do that?
I don’t know, people keep asking me this, neither am I Jhansi Ki Rani nor am I Joan of Arc. It’s not that I am a flag-waving activist who’ll go out there and say that ‘I’ll take on the establishment’ and break down barriers. It’s just living your own truths, the way you see your truths. Then whatever comes with it, comes with it. It’s never a smooth ride, for no one in life can it be anything but a bumpy ride. There are different points in your life. Accept that.
Do you think one needs the help of others in life to lead the life they want to?
Yes, for sure. I don’t think I’d be the person I am, for whatever it’s worth, good, bad, if I didn’t have the unconditional support of my husband (Dilip De) for example. Earlier on, of course, with my father I did have a slightly stormy relationship as a young girl, but it got resolved. And, I do crave acceptance. I am not someone who says, ‘It doesn’t matter to me. I am going to lead my life on my own terms, come hell or high water, this is who I am, take it or leave it’.
No. Validation does matter to me, from my family in particular. I won’t do anything that would hurt the kids or embarrass my grandchildren. I’d be sensitive to the people in my life, sensitive to their sensibilities and their standards too. My standards may be totally different from theirs.
In the moments when you perhaps don’t know of a wayout of a situation, do you surrender and wait?
I wait. At an impressionable age, I read Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha. It was a long time ago, but I remember that line where he says, ‘I can think, I can wait, I can fast’. If you can be at the top of these three things in your life, not always easy, but if deprivation doesn’t scare you and you don’t feel a sense of panic that something is going to be taken away from you, that is irretrievable... because there is nothing that is irretrievable apart from the loss of a loved one, apart from that, you should let it go. You can’t stake your entire peace of mind on how you are going to replace that... an object.
Someone had asked me about my idea of power. First of all, I don’t believe in power and no human being should be arrogant enough to believe they have power because only the Almighty has power. If you lack that humility and acknowledgement, then you lack something deep. So, the ‘power’ is to say no to anything or anyone that doesn’t fall into your level of acceptance, no matter how tempting that may be. If you can walk away from a deal, walk away from a human being who is toxic, or who makes you unhappy, to me that is power.
Do you feel ambitionis still a bad word when it comes to women?
I don’t like playing the gender card, ever. Ambition is ambition and it doesn’t have to do with being a man or a woman. It’s a judgemental society and you just can’t keep passing the buck on to other people saying because I was held back and because so many people tried to pull me down, it’s not assuming any responsibility for your own decisions. If you are going to keep looking at who’s going to pull you down, how are you going to rise up? You’ll be so obsessed with that.
A spiritual core is very important, a sense of belief, a sense of who you are, a sense of identity. I don’t have all the answers, but I pretty much know... I have always known even as a young girl. I have known what I am not. That’s very important. In my family we were one brother and three sisters and not for a moment were we compared or made to feel inadequate. Neither have I faced it professionally, ever. I have always tried to do my best and hoped for the best.
Ambition, per se, is not a negative quality, at all. How will you aspire if you completely lack ambition? Even a monk has ambition and spiritual goals. So, ambition is an inherent and positive attribute. I don’t see it in a negative way at all. If it’s not going to be at the cost of something else or someone else, why not... to be your best self, nothing wrong with that.
How have you prioritised your life?
In theory it sounds wonderful that I should come first, because if I am not giving myself priority, will I be able to take care of everybody else, but then there is the assumption and slight bit of arrogance that you are there to take care of everybody else. In today’s world, it doesn’t work quite like that. Everyone is equipped to look after themselves. I am not talking about very young children. They need your 110 per cent when they are growing up, but as adults and young adults, I don’t think one should expect that....
There is no question or debate in my mind... family, family, family... first and last and above all else and I feel, in a sense, extremely privileged that I have been able to raise a large family to the best of my abilities and that I have not shortchanged. I have always placed them first and I hope that they know it. I value them greatly. If they value me back, it’s a bonus. If they don’t, well that’s also okay.
The cover art of Insatiable (her latest book) is stunning...
I am very particular about covers and I have a certain sensibility about what the cover art should represent. So, we went through several options. ‘Insatiable’ itself, the word and its connotations and meaning, they had sort of imagined because they hadn’t read the manuscript perhaps, that it’s going to be a recipe book or a cookbook or it’s about food only and primarily. So, the first few illustrations showed vegetables, fruits and platters and some such things. I said no, ‘insatiable’ is about an emotion and having a hunger, not just for food, which I do have, it’s a hunger for life where all the senses are involved. It’s my hunger for experience, beauty, poetry, art and music. We all have it and sometimes underestimate our own hungers and I feel we cheat ourselves of great experiences.
So, for the image we were looking for something fairly iconic. When you go to Google or Pinterest, you find lots of images. This was an ad that I had done for Taj tea many years ago and it was an iconic campaign. I was in it and Zeenat (Aman) was in it and we all represented different moods of the tea and it was all shot in the backdrop of the Taj (Mahal) itself, in Agra. It is a classic image of a woman enjoying her time with herself and it’s kind of challenging, you know it’s the gaze, which was always there I suppose. We found out about copyright and found out it was so long ago that the copyright was exhausted and in any case, then they treated it and added elements to it.
Since I am also a great admirer of Frida Kahlo, I had communicated it to them. It was pop-art, but not exactly... it was an interpretation, which I liked and it worked.
What was the experience of putting Insatiable together like?
It was delightful and an experience that I really enjoyed. I indulged myself and it’s out in paperback now. The hardback did really well. The young people I meet at lit fests have responded with great enthusiasm. I feel extremely encouraged when the young embrace my work because when I was growing up, I don’t think my colleagues were as enthusiastic about my work. It always happens. Now the young are non-judgemental. They see it with fresh eyes and read it with an open mind.
Do you have a writing process?
I write even when I am not writing. Everything is registering, all the time. When I am at home, it’s like a regular working day. As soon as my husband and I are done with breakfast, I get to work and I work all the way till maybe 7’o clock in the evening. Then I chill or unwind and switch off a little bit if I can. Sometimes I joke that I write in my sleep!
What are you reading now?
I have been reading women authors exclusively for the last almost 10 years. It’s not by design, but their voices have interested me much more because what they are saying is so important because for so many decades women didn’t have that voice or they weren’t expressing themselves in quite the same way.
Do they think twice even now?
Even now. They are so self-conscious about sharing any aspect of their lives... the whole patriarchal construct we keep talking about is getting diminished in our society but not at the pace we’d like it to, but we have to live with so many different contradictions and I don’t think a woman should allow herself to be so bogged down by it... ‘I am a victim of patriarchy’, because you will never ever aspire to do anything significant with your own life and will be in that rut, saying that I will never be able to get out of patriarchy, but you can.
How to be hungry like Shobhaa De and be a good student of life?
You can never ever give up on yourself to start with. We all possess a childlike curiosity. I can be extraordinarily childish in my responses, petulant and excitable like a schoolgirl and I hope that level of enthusiasm remains with me forever because it stops me from becoming blase and taking things for granted, being jaded and cynical. I am the eternal optimist and I hope it always stays and soars.
